seattle indymedia center

So you guys did what? Cost them a couple of hundred dollars in repairs?

What did you do for that 14 year old kid who gets dragged to church by his/her parents and is being taught to hate him/herself?

How about being there in person and confronting them? That's a little tougher than getting tanked and pulling some little stunt.

Best laugh I've had in quite a while.

Every other Christian denomination has been gunning for our demise non-stop for nearly 180 years. Heck we even had one state make killing Mormons legal and the US Government wanted to wipe us out and they couldn't do it, but this tiny group, who probably only speaks of 5% of the 5% of the population that is gay, thinks they can make a dent?!? Talk about delusional. And how do they show their 'power', but childish pranks like gluing locks and graffiti. I'm so scared! NOT!

This kind of behavior makes a better argument for declaring homosexuality a mental illness again than it does for legalizing gay 'marriage'.

If I was a little kid who got dragged into church on a Sunday morning and saw this, I would have been inspired and encouraged.

BASH BACK

I do not like the mormon church very much, but this type of behavior is a hate crime, pure and simple.

DO NOT sacrifice our nation's protection of religious freedoms in order to advance your cause. Nations without protection do not, in general, treat the GLBT community kindly.

Attacking a church because you disagree with its beliefs and teaching (no matter how wrong they may really be) is a HATE CRIME.

What's next attacking the Jews because you don't like their beliefs?

Bash Back attacking the Mormons is little different than Skin Heads attacking the Jews. Hate is Hate!

fighting oppressive institutions and people is not hate. oppressive institutions and people existing is hate.

if there's a synagogue that supports killing palestinians, it's an apt target. a christian church that supports anti-abortion murders is an apt target. a hindu temple that supports fundamentalist genocide against muslims and untouchables is an apt target. a mormon church that supports taking away constitutional rights for people is an apt target.

religion has been used to justify oppression and and domination since its inception. imagine if people had attacked and dismantled christianity before it had the chance to enact the crusades, the inquisition, and the genocide of millions of indigenous people around the world. nazis were christian too.

How can this possibly help the gay rights movement?
Think about it. Sneaking around in the dark is sad and stupid.Grow up!

yes, Bash Back exists. Yes, we’re queer and angry, but we’re not idiots. Skulking around in the dark is hardly our MO—we’re all about visibility when it comes to radical response. And honestly—you think Bash Back would be so clichéd and predictable as to go tagging? And then run around bragging about it?

Oly bash back’s only action so far was the march on 11/15. We want to be seen and heard in the moment—were we to visit the Mormons, we’d be dancing during the sermon, not gluing their locks shut.

run by a bunch authoritarian, pro-corporate sleezbags. They have driven homosexuals out of their communities. There are few if any major religions that preach stupider values, and enforce stupider values within their communities. The religion probably cannot coexist in it's present form as part of a tolerant and pluralistic society. With that said, its probably not a good idea to vandalize churches. May I suggest instead, an organized effort to follow their missionaries around with placards as they roam neighborhoods looking for new stooges. They could be quite creative.

whoever left the comment claiming to be part of bb! needs to re-read the points of unity. denouncing tactics in the fight for liberation is not our “MO” The communique reads an affinity group from bash back! olympia. so i doubt you can claim that it was not bb! who did it. maybe it was, maybe it wasnt. who cares? shouldnt we keep our focus on the fucked up cult that has persecuted us since its debut way back when? lets not play into the cointelpro actions of shit talking eachother.

The act of vandalism here described is simply pathetic. However, the ignorance of the comments is astounding and the willingness to take the law into one's own hands is troubling.

"The religion probably cannot coexist in it's [sic] present form as part of a tolerant and pluralistic society."

It seems to have done a fine job doing just that,; the question is whether it can survive an intolerant, bigoted society of fanatics who resort to breaking the law when they don't get their way.

Tolerance is all about dealing with what you don't like. The perpetrators of this crime clearly know nothing about tolerance in practice or how tolerance came to be written into the Bill of Rights.

Who are the real bigots here?

How many gays have Mormons threatened with phyiscal violence or harm? How many gay night clubs or houses or other institutions have been vandalized?

It's hilarious that you accuse us of not being critical thinkers while you engage in violence, vandalism, and refuse to have a civil debate over the matter.

As a religious person - you're asking for trouble. 2,000 years of hatred directed at Christianity and other religion has not destroyed it. You think you will? I will fight for my faith, as is my right afforded in the Constitution - and you will fail.

There is no "constitutional right" to marriage. Marriage between a man and a woman has been the norm and accepted practice for thousands of years, long before "governments" evolved.

Individuals who claim to be so tolerant and understanding never cease to amaze me with their intolerance and demeaning actions and words. Marriage is not a right and religions have a right to oppose gay marriage on the basis of freedom of religion. And yes, religious people may actally vote on issues on the basis of their beliefs - what a shock!! But that is no reason for you bozos to destroy property. I really hope you are charged with a hate crime.

anyone else wonder if this is cointelpro-type lies? one commenter claims it's false... before we talk shit, let's get to the bottom of the story.

"not hate
Posted by: freedom lover at Nov 16, 2008 22:55

fighting oppressive institutions and people is not hate. oppressive institutions and people existing is hate.

if there's a synagogue that supports killing palestinians, it's an apt target. a christian church that supports anti-abortion murders is an apt target. a hindu temple that supports fundamentalist genocide against muslims and untouchables is an apt target. a mormon church that supports taking away constitutional rights for people is an apt target.

religion has been used to justify oppression and and domination since its inception. imagine if people had attacked and dismantled christianity before it had the chance to enact the crusades, the inquisition, and the genocide of millions of indigenous people around the world. nazis were christian too."

It's interesting that you threaten Hindus if they get out of line, although they generally aren't violent, but fail to mention the only major group that is currently killing in the name of their religion. I guess a game like yours depends on know who you can and can't pick on.

When liberals defend the rights of bigots to bash queers, but condemn queers who fight back, the liberals are on the side of oppression and should be considered enemies. Did we condemn slaves who revolted against and murdered their masters? HELL NO! Do we condemn women abused women who use violence to defend their children and themselves against abusive husbands? HELL NO! Violence against the oppressed is wrong. Violence in the defense of the oppressed and in self-defense is correct. The bashers justify their use of violence against the oppressed by convincing good abstract-thinking liberals that they're correct. Don't like queers attacking churches that openly advocate queer bashing? Fine. It's nice to see you've picked a side. And it's not ours.

Can someone please provide an independent source about this act? No one is reporting this other than sites running this piss poor press release.

I'm a gay man and you sure don't speak for me; in fact you're making the rest of us look bad. I don't agree with the Mormon Church's view of homosexuality but they, like everyone else, have a right to their views. Liberty means having the right to disagree with each other. What happened to tolerance? Pluralism? The first amendment?

What you claim to have done is cowardly and shameful. If you want to persuade people to your cause, stop acting like thugs and engage them in rational debate. You're validating every negative stereotype your critics accuse you of. Gays, Mormons, and America all deserve better.

Um, yeah, bigots really begin to change their minds when we act like "normal" people... The thing about bigots is that they hate you because of what you are. QUEERS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. HOMOPHOBIA IS. STOP THE INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA AND STOP BLAMING THE VICTIMS. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND OURSELVES. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO LIVE AS WE CHOOSE, WHATEVER THAT MEANS TO US. THOSE WHO WISH TO TAKE AWAY THAT RIGHT ARE THE ENEMY, NOT THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO RESIST OPPRESSION IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T SUIT YOU.

For as long as we live in a democracy, the winner of a politcal vote is the one with the MOST voste. You lost this round. Find out what you did wrong and reorganize the argument to win over the electorate.
Violence and Hate wil cost you voters every time it's tried. Destruction of community property, such as a church, will only galvanize the community against you.
As this keeps up, resat assured that there will be more campaigning AGAINST you, not withstanding the freak Geo. Soro's support for you.
If like so many other freaks of Califonia, you don't like the results of our Constitutional election, you are free to pack up and get out of our country and move to France. let me know what airline and I'll sent them a dollar towards your airfare. I'm sure that you'll be warmly welcomed. That is until the Muslims overpopulate the country, win all of their elections and set out on a jihad aginst you, hunting you down and killing you for you beliefs. At least here in America, you can still argue on merits and not feel like a moose in the Alaskan winter.

there's been no mainstream coverage of this, just this little statement posted over and over on dozens of sites. did this actually happen, or is somebody just trying to cause trouble within the community?

I'm confused. Would an organization that is usually open and public put a post online taking responsibility for property destruction? I'm not too sure but I have a hunch that the people who were involved with this do a number of "actions in solidarity" with oppressed groups, but never do the real work needed to confront and dismantle all forms of oppression, capitalism and the state. I guess it's cooler to fuck shit up and post silly communiques on indymedia and infoshop.

Nihilists suck. These people aren't anarchists at all. They only thing they are good at is reinforcing people's misconceptions about anarchism and anarchists.

So are you guys really anarchists or not? If you are, then you can't blather on about 'rights' and say it is 'wrong' for someone to do this or that. With anarchy there are NO rights and if somebody wants to go on a gay killing spree they are free to do so, that is what anarchy is.

Sounds more to me like you are a group of gay thugs who have a desperate need to feel like your life isn't a total waste of time.

Is this a joke? Seriously. If I wanted to make gay people look bad, I would write that stoopid article. Glue and paint? Oooooooh. Scary. I know a lot of nice gay people and I feel bad for them that they would somehow be grouped together with the dork who wrote this article and the morons who supposedly vandalized a Mormon church (I haven't seen any news reports to verify this). If you're trying to improve the image of homosexuals, this is not the way to go about it. You're shooting yourselves in the foot.

By the way, I'm a Mormon, I love my body (and my husband's body *wink wink*), one of our teachings is that your body is one of the greatest gifts you could ever have and one of our main purposes for being born - to gain a body. A lot of people are angry at us for being against same-sex marriage, but I love them anyway. I think we're fighting over a word here. To me, the whole institution of marriage was started by God, which many, many people believe was meant to be between a man and a woman from the beginning as He directed. To call two men or two women married feels a little like I would be offending God.

I am for civil unions, which I think the majority of Mormons are. We don't want to stop people from living their lives as they see fit, but to demand people change the definition of marriage is like demanding the definition of "man" be changed to "a person who has a penis or vagina". Let's say I demanded that, saying I wanted the title of man so I can go into male locker rooms, bathrooms etc. Then let's say I am denied that request, being told that the definition of man has never included a person with a vagina ever since the beginning of time. Then let's say I start calling you a vagina hater. That would be silly. Who am I to try to make someone change a definition? Ok, so I don't have the right to pee in the men's bathroom, but I do have the right to pee. Do I need to pee in the men's bathroom? No. If a man doesn't want me in the men's bathroom, does that mean he hates me? No. He just doesn't want me in there looking at him while he does his business. Can we get along and play fun games, sports, make music together, etc.? Heck yeah! Us using separate bathrooms doesn't make us unequal.

This really bums me out that a lot of gay people now feel like Mormons and other Christians are the enemy. Mormons are also against pre-marital sex and shacking up. I have some great friends who have shacked up and I don't hate gay people anymore than I hate them. We're also taught not to masturbate (we're supposed to wait, get married, and have lots and lots of sex). Ok, I know tons of people who masturbate who are also my friends and I don't hate them either. I don't hate people who drink coffee. I don't hate people who drink. I don't hate people who smoke. I don't hate people who gamble. I don't hate people who swear.

You know what I hate? Being told that I hate someone when I don't. If I hate someone, it will be really obvious!

Love,
Cupcake

P.S. Whoever sent us the fake Anthrax, please stop it.

This is, without a doubt, the biggest load of hate crime bullshit I have seen in quite awhile. For those who oppose Prop 8 (as I do), seeing the Mormon church throw money at a political cause (an action that could rob them of their 501c3 status) was a pathetic attempt in fearmongering and outright lies. However, I prefer to fight in a peaceful way (demonstrating, refusing to purchase products from companies who supported the prop), not commit hate crimes. And that's what it is, morons. A hate crime.

At the nationwide demonstration this Saturday I stood by a couple who had flown to California from Ohio to get married. They had been together for years, and even bickered like an old married couple in the rain and cold. I asked if their marriage would become invalid if the Prop held. They sadly did not know.

A hate crime is defined in state law as thus: a criminal offense committed against a person, property, or society that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin.

You have committed a hate crime, and are no better than the murderers of Matthew Shepard, or any other hatemongers who have preyed on gays and lesbians.

You don't even know what anarchism is. Honestly, you BB kids sound like you're 12 years old and listen to too much emo.

Of course you have a right to live as you choose. But does this extend to making others recognize the unions that you choose? That's what is essentially happening here. Do you have a right to make others believe a certain way? Think about it.

"Under the veil of fog?" What kind of nonsense is that? You're not poets. Lay off the emo and get a life.

AN ANONYMOUS MEMBER OF BASH BACK!=/=BASH BACK.

There was no consensus among members of Bash Back Olympia to take credit, as a group, for this action. It is very possible, though not for certain, that this was posted in an attempt to sabotage Bash Back! Olympia.

For everybody's sake. Be critical to a fault.

most likely an immature and young still boy with parental issues (who doesn't) and wanted to be a hero (who doesn't) and had a very small reserve of examples to base his actions on.

Likely the same failed poet who talks of anarchofairy dust all over this site.

Did he consult the group? would he ask daddy and mommy about something he knows they would say NO!!! to?

Did he feel good and did he feel pride and an exaultation of self? for sure. And here in is a big part of the problem. Thanks , folks, for condemning this act.

There is a time for "fighting" and it is when you are attacked or some defensless one is attacked. All other times the act of fighting is the act of being the agressor. It is a violation of the principles of advanced beings everywhere. Attacked? every creature has the obligatory right to do all that is necesssary. Retaliation afterwards is not ever necessary, it is the deed of the lower class of evolving beings. It is bad karma, bad juju and illegal.

Sensless vandalism is for useful fools- usefulol to the attacked entity.

too many anarchos today are just like this kid. they believe in might makes right and any means is justified. JACOBEANS anyone?

I, as a member of bash back! thousands of miles away, am really disheartened by the response of some people who are claiming to be in bb! olympia and their response to this. It is creating a good protester/bad protester dichotomy. If someone engaged in sabotage at the mormon church bash back! should be applauding them rather than running as far from the action as possible. EF! started doing this after sabotage began taking place, and look where it has gotten them. Regardless of whether or not members of bb! olympia did this, which If people are practicing decent security culture not everyone in bb! would know who did it, bb! should stand in solidarity with these people who decided to take it a step further. BB! is not all about dance parties inside the church, it is about oppressed people taking what action they see fit. If that is dancing, great, if it is glueing locks...fantastic. We are all in this together. The most cointelpro thing we could do is start baiting eachother on indymedia.

I agree with "cupcake". I too am LDS, and I have NEVER heard any hate preached in our churches towards ANYONE. There are individuals who hate others, because everyone has the freedom of choice, even if it is to choose to hate- that does not at all mean the LDS faith promotes or teaches hate, it just means there are stupid people out there with stupid beliefs, and they happen to belong to a certain church. Just because my father-in-law makes stupid racist comments does not mean he learned them at church, it simply means that he makes stupid racist comments, and is ignoring what the church teaches us. Just because someone decides they fear gay people or hate them does not mean they speak for their religion. It means that they have chosen to believe certain things, even if they are contrary to what they have been taught through their religion. Do you do EVERYTHING your parents taught you? I doubt it. Have you chosen to do things your parents dissaprove of? most would answer yes. Everyone chooses how they will act, even if it is contrary to what they know to be right. Everything else I want to say would just be a repeat of "cupcakes" comment.