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You have got to be kidding. These people are NOT immigrants. An immigrant is a person who has arrived in this country legally and is working and studying to become a citizen. They pay taxes for what work they get. These ILLEGAL ALIENS enter this country by some crooked method and many of them are employed in drug running or prostitution and they spread death and disease. They have no intention of becomming citizens and do not pay taxes. Honest hard working citizens must pay the price to keep these people on welfare or pay for the crimes they commit. HOW DARE anyone call these people Immigrants and act as though they have rights. People who work to get the necessary documents to enter this country legally have rights. These scum do not. They should all be packed up and sent home by what ever means possible. If they want to come back, they need to get the required documents and enter the country through legal channels.

You hit the nail right on the head. How dare they demand anything. Any and all of these illegal persons should be picked up by law enforcement personnel and deported immediately. Is there an "Anti-Illegal Immigrant" March???

I will agree with you that many of the ways that these "aliens" come into the country are questionable, but it is clear that you are wrong about their strain on society. First off, many, many of these workers have legitimate jobs, complete with pay stubs and witheld taxes. Not a single one of them would dare file for a tax return though due to their status. Millions of dollars go unclaimed every year and end up in the state and government budget. That same money that you think they soak up from the government just doing nothing (or selling drugs and prostitution as you seem to think that their main form or employment is) is really contributed by them already. Additionally, none of these workers come here under the guise that it is going to be a government funded cake walk. I love the argument that "they are taking away jobs!", yet every time that you go to a grocery store and count on tomatoes only being two dollars a pound you reap the benifits of those workers not having benifits. Your best solution is to haul them all off back "home", to get rid of the scum, disease, and death that they spread. Well let me tell you that if they were to all up and leave all at once, there would be a lot more filth and poverty due to inflation than you could even imagine.

Oficial de la inmigración. Demuéstreme su tarjeta verde

Immigrant is a person who comes to a country where they were not born in order to settle there. American indians are the original inhabitants of this continent. Every one else was and is an immigrant at some point in time. Also, who says the immigrants are the source of crimes and prostitution? Of course, there are goods and bads. Don't blame these issues on the immigrants alone. You have to be carefule and unbiased when you talk about immigration because this is one of the most sensitive issues in our country.

wow, nice humanitarian perspective you have... you should run for office.

nice.. anti-humanitarian comment? what's wrong with being sensitive and compassionate? and if some are you are SO against "illegal" immigrants but it would be okay if they just held a piece of paper saying they were "legal"...what is the difference? I mean, what REALLY is the difference? Just a matter of documentation. And as was said above, the tax evading and job taking arguments are weak at best. Also, whether you want to call them "immigrants" or not every human deserves to be treated with respect. Human rights anyone?

For starters do you suppose European immigrants bothered to get a visa before they got on boats to come to this country"legally"? Answer: NO!
However, the ancestors of the majority of "mestizo" immigrants are indigineous to North America and have moved freely in this land for over 10,000 years. They have more right to be hear than Europeans, Asians or Africans whose ancestors are not indigineous.
Illegal immigrants are all of the europeans who have violently taken over Australia, the Americas, South Africa. They are like a plague taking over the whole world, and now they have the audacity to call the descentants of these lands "illegal"?!
Well, like it or not Amenesty is coming and your children will marry their children and your grandchildren will be half Mexican. Deal with that!

Assuming that the source of hostility toward illegal immigrants is based on a racial issue is ill-informed. The reality is that the whole immigration issue is a mess. Amnesty for illegal immigrants won't solve the citizenship issue for legal resisidents. Nor will it provide a solution for the next generation of immigrants. It is just one more half-assed solution.

I really hope one day the planet is invaded by creatures from another galaxy...then these wankers would have some real illegal aliens to worry about!

Every single boarder on this Earth is an artifical thing, created by the rich and powerful to aid them in accumulating more wealth and power...

PS: Space aliens, I will take you to "our leader"...Bush could use a severe rectal probe.

It seems many people have forgotten that we are all immigrants, unless your a full blood Native. And this is a serious matter, as unlawful laws threaten the freedom of all Americans.

in country only the feable an infirmed can remember my grandfather was an immigrant. He came from a country where bread was made with flour and sawdust. A country where laborers, if one was so lucky to be employed, were paid three times a day because after 2 or 3 hours, your wages were destroyed by daily hyper inflation. Raveged from war, he left his beloved Germany (which he always refered to as "the old country") at 18 in 1920.

He arrived in the former great city of New York. But first he had to go thru a health screening at Elis Island (look it up, we actually sent immigrants back if they were not healthy.) Not speaking a word of english and with nearly no money, he made a life for himself as a landscaper. Yes. He worked hard like most Americans of the previous generations did and bought a 4 bedroom house for his family on capitol hill over looking Lake Washington and Mercer Island. You cant do that today on a landscapers earnings.

He was 89 when he moved on when I was 14. He was strong to the end with hand crushing grip that I still remember the day before he left us. He worked up to age 83. He only visited the old country twice since he became an American. He loved this country and hated our politicians.

Whats the point of this story with respect to the topic of the thread? For a few of you it will be obvious. But for the majority of you I will explain. He was an immigrant. An immigrant comes to a country and is either accepted or rejected. Yes that is cruel but it is the real world. If it was made clear all over the planet that all immigrants were accepted into the US today, our population would be 4 billion in about 5 years. So as a country, we have the right to control who comes in and who doesn't.

You Mexicans know what your country does to the even poorer nationalities south of your border crossing into your nation illegally. You racist leftists will have to look that up if you are at least curious of the truth.

So know we have a call for immigrant rights. Obviously, by definintion, criminal aliens (mostly from Mexico) are not immigrants. The press keeps repeating the same La Raza ("The Race" in Spanish and a brown supremisist organization) lie that these aliens are immigrants. The street garbage such as ANSWER and other certified Communist Internationale front groups are pushing these rallies. They will do anything to destroy this country so it can be rolled up into a global socialist state. I canot be clear on which is worse... corporate OR socilist globalization.

I guess it would be OK if these aliens came here to to do the work our lazy welfare scum wont do. I work with a mostly alien crew. (I am a landscaper, like my grandfather) They work hard and I did not notice a lack of staff today at work. The protesters must be the disease I will discuss now rather than the back-bone of the economy. I mean really, not one lawn that was supposed to be mowed today was left alone. Perhaps the LA Raza memo did not reach them in time.

I would not mind the aliens if it were not for our treasonous socialism that the left has burdened us with. The aliens get a rash or something and go to the emergency room. We have to press "one" for English. We have to educate their kids in our collapsing school system (the collapse is also caused by the left for various reasons and motives but that is a different issue) and with the language barrier and the fact that the un-elected ACLU has illegally forced so-called bi-lingual ed... the cost is stagering. To top this all off, we have the street garbage in escence saying: This is your country, we are taking it, and if you stand up like a man to defend it, you are a racist." Thats agitprop bullshit of the most rank.

I would make this offer: Deport 1 filthy leftist to North Korea for every 2 hard-working Mexican that comes in and gives up the fake right to the socalist services and learns english.

But back to my grandfather. He did not arrive in New York demanding immediate and major medical care to be paid for by the working. There was no such a socialist program in the glorious and free* America of old. He did not demand all official communiction with him be handled in Bavarian German. He either learned our language or tough shit. He could not get free housing and food paid for with money extorted from the working.

So in reality, even if I give in and call these aliens immigrants, they are not immigrants in the classic sense of self-sufficient hard-work. The street garbage is using that term to appeal to the average ignorant American. Well there are a lot more of us out here that know reality than ANSWER, that hate group La Raza, and the press would have you realize.

But we are silent. We are guilty of treason. We will sit by as the great country of my immigrant grandfather is torn down. Our politicians on both "sides" go along with this treason. Its a lot like a previous shmefull period in our ealy history when Indian cheifs would sell off their tribes lands for a bottle of fire water and an umbrella.


* So excluisions may apply and, while worthy of discussion, are not relevant here.

Most people who beat it over here would probably be happier it their country of origin if only there were better jobs, clean water etc. There are jobs available for them here. Legally or illegally they WILL come. So do you want your fellow countrymen, who you rely on for support and solidarity to be too fearful to speak up against employer abuse, government abuse, police abuse etc.? This is an important movement. Whether these people are guilty of a felony or not, our government is NOT going to send them out of the country because there is an economic insentive for them to remain. They will ONLY enforce these proposed draconian laws against people who are politically involved or unionizing fellow workers etc. The rest will know that if they shut up and work hard for some sleezy company that abuses it's employees, they can stay in this "Land of Freedom" forever.

I guess some people could use a lesson in U.S. foreign policy. The same foreign policy that has forced so many of these so called "illegal aliens" of their own lands in Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic and other countries and left them little choice but to migrate. The same U.S. policies that back militeristic regimes in other countries, forcing many to leave their homes, farms and jobs in search of safety. The same U.S. policies that continually outsource American jobs to Mexico, China, Korea, Jamaica and elsewhere, but point the finger at people who cross our borders illegally in order to dodge the blame. Next time you kick a soccer ball, buy a t-shirt, eat a peach, avacado, grape, strawberry or apple, have a meeting in your clean office building or drive to work in your newly repaired SUV-- think about the hands of immigrant workers that sewed it, planted it, picked it, packed it, cleaned it and fixed it. Think about the U.S. policies that forced that immigrant to come to the United States. Think what you would do if your families safety was in jeopardy, if there were no jobs available here, if there was no food to put on the table. If you say you wouldn't cross a border in order to save yourself and your loved ones from starvation, violence or homelessness, you are lying.

The very first immigrants-- the Spanish-- arrived in 1492 without any documentation. They did not fill out an immigration form or ask anyone's permission to come here. They came and they stole, and we follow in their footsteps today. We continue to economically exploit the origional people of the Americas, force them to work, discriminate against them, steal their land and exclude them from our political and social process.

Finally, so many of you have said that an immigrant is someone who comes to the U.S. to work legally-- with the correct documentation. You obviously do not know very much about U.S. immigration law because the only people who are allowed to immigrate legally to the United States are those rich enough to buy their way in, or educated enough to be asked to come. We do not provide visas or opportunities for citizenship to anyone outside of that elite group.

When people unite, it scares those in power. They do whatever they can to devide us, so that we will continue to blame eachother for our country's problems. As long as they can keep us apart, we will not see that opression and exploitation start at the highest levels of our society-- with our "leaders" and the corporations that control them. When will we stop to ask why we are so afraid of people of different national origins, different customs or cultures or different skin tones? How many more groups must become the target of racism, descrimination, hate speech and exploitation? Where will it stop?

AND just in case none of that did it for you... the KKK had a border watch program too. How does your idiology line up?

Yes, most of us are immigrants. Mine came in the 1600's as indentured servants. To get a ride across the Atlantic, they sold themselves to a landowner for 7 years. When they served their time, they could begin making money for themselves, and to help bring the next person over.

That was the immigration law of the time.

Centuries later, I don't own an SUV for someone to wash. I don't have servants or employees. I buy local organic foods from local farmers. I often go to "pick your own" farms.

I don't share the class guilt that seems to resonnate with many people. Why? Maybe because I did most of the "immigrant" jobs. Those jobs used to be the only ones that teenagers could get: babysitting, picking fruit, fast food, cannery jobs, etc. Yeah, the work is hard, but it doesn't qualify you for sainthood.

I put myself through college, and I work in a cube farm. I would rather my rich employers had to pay their cleaning staff a living wage. I wouldn't have a problem if the government put tarriffs on cheap goods (and foods). I certainly wouldn't have a problem with taxing outsourced jobs or taxing jobs that are filled by foreign workers.

There is no inheriant right to immigrate to the United States. If the best argument you have is that the U.S. has fucked over Latin American countries, get in line. The U.S. fucks over anyone and everyone it can. If that is the criteria, we should be offering homes to every person in Iraq.

It is ironic that so many immigrants yesterday were willing to march for what is essentially the right to stay here and make money. When was the last time that we saw an anti-war demonstration equally as big? Is economic self-interest the only reason that people are willing to hit the streets?

My question is what makes people think that the only ones marching are "illegal" immigrants? I am a citizen of the United States and I was there marching for my rights nad the rights of my family who pay your taxes, educations, and give to your social security. Money they will never see because they are not citizens. I love the fact that everyone feels these people should "sent back". We are all entitled to being in America, we are all Americans as the entire continent is called that, in case you might have forgotten. The US like in so many other cases feels they can just take over everything. No "American" was actually here form the beginning, all of you, whether you like it or not are here because your families immigrated here.

I live in Whatcom County. We are the number one raspberry growing county in the country. Undocumented workers are responsible for the raspberries grown here-- everything from fertilizing and weeding them to picking and packing them. There are a plethora of small local farms in Whatcom County as well, many organic. MOST of these farms (where you are presumably getting your organic food from) employ undocumented people. There is a significant difference between babysitting or working on a farm after school and fieldwork.

People of color (Latinos included) are disproportionately represented in the armed forces-- they are the front lines-- and many of them are the children of undocumented immigrants. One of the most popular chants yesterday in Seattle where 25,000 people (many legal residents and citizens of the United States) marched was "Bush, escucha, estamos en la lucha" (Bush, listen, we are in the fight (also)) referring to the huge amount of immigrants and children of immigrants who are members of the armed forces. Many of the protesters appose the war in Iraq as well as fascist immigration reform.

I have not advocated that anyone has the “inherent right” to immigrate to the United States. I would simply suggest that making the 10-12 million people already living and working without documentation in this country felons is NOT a viable solution. Nor is creating a guest worker program (we saw that under Regan, and it was not a viable solution to the issues of illegal immigration OR the economic problems of the U.S.). The bills in question also propose building a 700 mile double layer fence along the U.S./Mexico border and increased militarization of the border—with a price ticket in the billions of dollars per year. Along with these, local and state police would be asked to enforce immigration law without training (can anyone say racial profiling?), due process would be non-existent for undocumented people, and the U.S. visa lottery which allows up to 50,000 people to immigrate legally to the United States each year would be eliminated. Making felons out of undocumented people would also remove the billions in unclaimed tax-refund dollars that undocumented immigrants contribute to our economy each year. This march was not for the absolution of borders. It was against immigration reform that scapegoats undocumented (and even documented) people for our problems.

By the way, when your European ancestors were allowed to immigrated to the United States, immigration laws were (and still are) based on the race theory prominent at the time—theory based on the belief that you could measure one’s intelligence based on the size and weight of their brain, and that classified “white” European people as the most intelligent (and desirable), and African people as the least intelligent and desirable. Your ancestors were allowed to come because it was believed that they were smarter based on the size of their brain. We still use these ideas to decide who is the most intelligent and deserving in our society—it is the basis for standardized testing.

My last point, and one that many have neglected to take into account, is in response to the above comment about the United States "wasting" millions of dollars on Bilingual Education to educate "their" children. News flash-- after the Mexican American war, the United States and Mexico signed the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Some of the conditions included in this treaty were that all official documentations in annexed lands would be written in both English and Spanish, (Reminder, part or all of the states of California, Texas, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado and Utah are included in this area) and that those Mexican citizens residing on the U.S. side of the border would retain their lands and be granted U.S. citizenship if they wished.

By the way, I’m white; my ancestors emigrated from Germany, too and Ireland and Denmark and Russia and Spain. I grew up poor, have had to work my way through college and do not drive an SUV, or any car for that matter. None of that gives me a right to tell other people they shouldn’t have the same chances I have. I attended the march in Seattle because HR 4437 (which passed the house in December), and similar legislation currently in the senate is wrong. I attended this march for similar reasons as I attended the WTO protests in Seattle many years ago, or anti-war protests—I don’t believe in sitting by silently while injustices occur—and I don’t believe in scapegoating.

To end it on a light note, check out this animation to see if you suffer from a case of migrophobia… you just may laugh—either that or it will increase your fear of the “Latin Horde on the verge of pouring into our country  http://www.markfiore.com/animation/phobia.html

If you can't distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants, you are in a fucking sorry situation. It took some legal immigrants up to 15 years to get their Green Card and then their citizenship. Why should people who people who break the law (illegal immigrants and their employers) jump to the head of the line?

Frankly, I agree the immigration situation in the U.S. is a mess. However, I can't share the moral outrage that seems to be here on this board. Yeah, many illegal immigrants pay taxes. So what. That is the law. If you make money -- you kick some of it back to the government for services that benefit from: police, roads, schools, etc. That is true worldwide ....

Money from illegal immigration is propping up the corrupt Mexican regime and the ruling oligarchy. The money sent from illegal immigrants is the second largest "industry" in Mexico. (Number one is the oil industry.)

I could groove with the idea of "North America" citizenship if I this new concept of citizenship was bi-directional. I can't afford a house in Seattle, however, I could live quite nicely in Mexico -- just from my limited savings. If working class Americans went to Mexico to live and work, the cost in living would jump dramatically. Our presence would cause dramatic inflation -- the cost of houses, cars, etc. would jump dramatically. Taxes would likely rise, as newcomers made demands on public services. However, like I said before, taxes are the cost of doing business. I'd be willing to pay them.

From the Consul General website.

Foreigners who contemplate visiting Mexico with the intention of seeking employment can't remain in the country to work .

Those who have the above purpose in mind, should first contact established companies in Mexico to offer them their services.

If an agreement is reached between the prospective employee and the employer, it would be up to the latter, there after, to apply to the immigration department in Mexico City for the necessary entry work permit authorization. When doing so, the name of the city through which the entry is to be made, must be indicated.

If the prospective employee is married and plans to take his family along, he should furnish the full names of his wife and children, as well as the ages of the latter, so that arrangements for their respective entry authorization may also be made.

In the event the application submitted is approved, notification of the entry authorization is given through the Mexican consulate having jurisdiction over the state or province where the interested party resides, so that the permit and passport visa may be issued. Certain documents must be presented by the interested party when making formal application for the entry permit. The fees for the above mentioned procedure would be advise upon request before calling the consulate.

Authorization for the issuance of entry permits and for the admission to the country of interested parties have a validity of 90 days from the date they are granted; thereafter they become void.

Nice to see your comments, and nice that you were able to make it to the march. Keep up the struggle!

If follow the story, you'll find that the illgeal alien-rights movement considers ALL of the North American continent to be "America" of which they are clearly citizens entitled to "rights" by law. The also consider the territory from California to Texas stolen by America, and they want it back. 50% of the incarcerated population are classified as "undocumented" illegal aliens. When they get sick, they go to the Urgent Care department at Harborview Medical Center, where treatment is the most expensive of all options; all at taxpayer expense.

There is a difference between legal immigrants and illegal aliens. The march was about illegals aliens demanding rights. How insane is that?

There is nothing we can do about it. OUr government will not get rid of these people because it helps rich people to have a workforce that consists of people who are here illegaly, as if they decide to form a union or ask for their civil liberties they can be shipped out. The threat of being shipped out prevents a lot of community organizing. The threat of being shipped out prevents people from reporting crimes to the police. The threat of being shipped out allows organized criminals to control people. Remove that threat and people can participate in society, pay taxes, testify in court, get a legitamate job,, join labor unions etc...