Seattle Indymedia: accountble to community or open to neo-nazi spam?update
author: Ben Seattle
Mar 06, 2006 21:52
(update to earlier thread) Will the Seattle Indymedia editorial board be accountable to the local progressive community and explain why it keeps the newswire open to neo-nazi spam?
1. First -- I would like to respectfully ask the Seattle Indymedia editors not to modify the title of this newswire post (as happened to the last one -- which was shortened in such a way as to reduce readership -- see below for details). I would probably not have bothered to make this update post if the title of my previous post had not been tampered with.
2. Since the first newswire posts (more than a week ago) protesting the dozens of neo-nazi posts and comments in the newswire -- the neo-nazi posts and comments have stopped. Unfortunately it is unclear if this is because the neo-nazis got bored with spamming the newswire -- or if the local indymedia editorial group decided to respond to pressure from the progressive community and (for now) deletes this racist crap.
3. Even though the neo-nazi spamming appears to have stopped (for now) questions remain. The Seattle Indymedia editorial board has refused to clarify what is going on. I have requested that this topic be placed in the center column for greater visibility and community response.
4. The only response from the editorial board to my request for accountability and transparency on this issue -- was to shorten the title of my previous newswire post.
My post originally had the title:
> Who does Seattle Indymedia serve?
> Neo-nazi spam or accountabilty to
> progressive community?
The 2nd question was removed from the title sometime _after_ my post first appeared on the newswire. Shortening the title reduces readership -- because it leaves unclear to potential readers the _content_ of my criticism of the editorial board (ie: readers are less likely to click on a newswire posting that appears to be abstract and without a focus on a concrete issue -- because postings without a concrete issue in the title tend to be pointless spam.)
5. I also said that the time has come for the indymedia editorial board to remove the present bureaucratic barriers that serve to keep the editorial board closed off to increased participation from members of the progressive community.
The main barrier that I mentioned was the requirement that editorial members must work at least 15 hours a week on indymedia. This barrier was created about two years ago when the current editorial group gained power by ousting some of the previous people. Few people protested this barrier at the time because the new arrangement appeared to be working in the direction of the community interest.
However if the current indymedia editorial group refuses to enforce a ban on neo-nazi posts and comments -- and refuses to even discuss this issue here on the newswire -- or to make this topic a center column feature -- then it has become clear that the editorial board of indymedia must be opened up. If Seattle Indymedia is to serve the progressive community then it must be something more than a project controlled by a very few people who do not see themselves as accountable in any way to a larger community.
The proof is in the pudding. Neo-nazi posts and a refusal to talk about them are a clear indication that something important here is broken.
6. The previous newswire posts on this topic (see the appendix below) were overwhelmingly supportive of the principle that neo-nazi posts have no place on Indymedia. However the post which I initiated was opposed by one person -- who (1) asked the editorial group to censor my newswire postings (this person is not bothered by neo-nazi posts but is upset by my posts), (2) accused me of being a "provocateur" (ie: a code word for someone who works for the police) without presenting any evidence or arguments and (3) asserted (again -- without either argument or explanation of any kind) that my actions have "sabotaged" the antiwar movement and that tens of thousands of local activists would be hitting the street each week if only I would shut up.
My post here is focused on the need for an indymedia editorial board that is accountable to the community and which will keep the newswire free of neo-nazi spam. For that reason I will keep my response to the "sabotage" accusation short:
At present the antiwar movement is dominated by the big liberal coalitions which promote the policy of alliance with the Democratic Party and which work to suck the energy of activists into dead-end schemes that will supposedly (if only activists are willing to give up their militancy and learn to kiss ass) turn the Democratic Party into an antiwar party.
Along with a number of like-minded activists (I am hardly alone in this nor am I playing the leading role in this -- readers who are interested are encouraged to look at the website of the Seattle Anti-Imperialist Committee at
http://SeattleAIC.org ) I oppose the domination of the antiwar movement by the Democratic Party and its many flunkies -- and the coalitions which have an open (or hidden) alliance with a section of the Democratic Party. I tell other activists the simple truth: the Democratic Party is an imperialist party to the core -- this imperialist party is "helping" the antiwar movement for one reason only: in order to hijack this movement and lead it into the gutter and destroy it. It is because I take this principled stand that my anonymous critic (who is unable to defend his views with principled political arguments) promotes this kind of disinformation -- and implies that I work for the police and that I sabotage the antiwar movement. We live in a class-divided society and anytime you take a clear stand for building a powerful movement -- you will encounter this kind of hot air.
Sincerely,
Ben Seattle
http://struggle.net/ben
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appendix -- related newswire postings
============================================================
- 1 -
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Who does Seattle Indymedia serve? Neo-nazi spam or
accountabilty to progressive community? (May 4)
(the original title was modified by editors for reasons unknown)
http://seattle.indymedia.org/en/2006/03/251980.shtml
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- 2 -
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An example (one of many) of the nazi theads
that has been spamming the newswire (March 1)
http://seattle.indymedia.org/en/2006/03/251911.shtml
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- 3 -
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Who IS responsible for editorial at indymedia? (March 2)
http://seattle.indymedia.org/en/2006/03/251941.shtml
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thread started by E. Miesner, comments by Frank, Ben and others
Includes: "background on indymedia editorial group" by Ben
- 4 -
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Boycott Seattle Indymedia (February 27)
http://seattle.indymedia.org/en/2006/02/251877.shtml
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This is the thread that started this off, by "2 friends"
(I wish, by the way, that posters would use
consistent pseudonyms. That way each person can
develop his or her reputation and readers can
more easily find what is deserving of attention)
comments by Edward, Ben, "Don Quixote", Ktesibios, Frank,
TheTroll and a member of the portland indymedia collective
A quote from the Portland guy:
> Same reasons also for not allowing a bunch
> of racist sexist bigots to poison the well
> we are trying to drink from. [...]
>
> the Portland site was drowing in garbage posts
> until it was decided to start moving it to the
> compost page. Many readers were leaving, people
> saw no point to post an article they had written
> if it was going to receive a bunch of crude,
> thoughtless, or malicious comments. Taking that
> decision the site immediately became more healthy
> and started attracting better quality content.
>
> I heartily recommend Seattle take a similar step,
> whatever the specifics of the policies might be.
- 5 -
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http://seattle.indymedia.org/en/2006/03/251919.shtml (March 1)
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Mostly a repost of the 251877 thread, with a few additional comments
add a comment on this article
Posted by: old timer at Mar 06, 2006 22:16
you stated:
"This barrier was created about two years ago when the current editorial group gained power by ousting some of the previous people."
i recall only one person being removed, for threatening someone. other folks left for various reasons.
it is not like there was a coup however. please don't over-dramatize.
i believe the presence of nazi posts is due to the nazis, and lack of sufficient time/person-power to get rid of it. the software (mir) of the site is yet another issue.
i'm not convinced of nefarious intent.
burnout is a much simpler explanation.
Posted by: Ben Seattle at Mar 06, 2006 22:35
Hi there old-timer.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply and correction to my historical account.
The guy who made the threat (it did not appear to be a serious threat -- more an expression of being pissed off) was something of an airhead who had a tendency to get into unnecessary quarrels with people.
So I was not sorry to see the guy go. We have enough problems without clueless people.
> i'm not convinced of nefarious intent.
> burnout is a much simpler explanation.
Burnout may certainly be part of the explanation.
But if the present editorial board does not have time or energy to delete posts which are obviously by neo-nazis -- or to explain what is going on -- then this would clearly indicate that more people are needed on the editorial board and that it must be opened up.
The 15 hour per week requirement serves to keep people off of the editorial board (who has 15 hours per week to deal with this?).
And if the existing people who are on the board were really spending a total of 30 hours per week -- then why would they not have time to delete obvious neo-nazi posts? How long can this take?
It does not make a lot of sense. Something needs to change. What we have now is clearly broken. What has happened in the last few weeks proves it.
sincerely,
Ben
Posted by: Mike Novack at Mar 07, 2006 04:39
>
OK Ben -- you consider a commitment of 15 hours/week to be excessive. Maybe (I couldn't do that much now that I'm back in the "cypher mines").
So you suggest? I mean certainly 7 hours, yes? That's not much more than 100% different. With four editors each putting in 7 hours on an IRREGULAR schedule you would expect the objectonable posts to remain up on average 4-5 hours before an editor was available to remove them. And does the Seattle site actually have as many as four willing to put in THAT much of a time commitment.
Ben -- let me explain the realities of any anarchist organization. Them as is willing to do the work get sto call the shots. They aren't responsible to anybody but themselves (responsible for their own actions). If your objection is that you aren't being granted editorial powers (to remove some piece) when you happen to feel like it in spite of the fact you are NOT willing to make a major commitment to be "editor on duty" then so what?
Seriously --- if the situation is not as I am describing (I don't know the Seattle situation) provide some evidence. What I HEAR you seem to say is "I, and the community don't get a say, can't decide and then "cut the orders" which those doing the editorial work have to obey. That's right Ben -- under anarchist forms of organization NOBODY gets to "issue orders", there is no "draft".
What you need to convince us is something like "I stand ready to perform my share of the work and accept my share of the responsibilities but am being excluded". It IS valid for you to say "fifteen hours is more than I can afford to put in" IF you present a reasonable counter proposal >
Posted by: ./ at Mar 07, 2006 05:08
Ben, as is illustrated by the multitude of links in your piece, this topic has been talked to death. Your argument has been made. You've gotten a mixture of responses. However, there is no consensus on your position. There isn't even a consensus on the primary premise -- that the Seattle IMC has been over run by Nazi posts.
You have taken what might have begun as a legitimate concern and beat the issue into the ground. I sincerely hope that the Seattle IMC will begin treating you as the Troll you have become and remove your posts.
Posted by: disgusted at Mar 07, 2006 10:37
This is a blatant defense of permitting Nazis to use Indymedia to spread their filth. Shame on you. You're a disgrace to activism. Go hang your head.
Posted by: gehrig at Mar 07, 2006 12:51
Nessie loses another one.
@%<
Posted by: ./ at Mar 07, 2006 16:48
Yes, this topic has been talked to death. Benji-boy has presented his case and those with the briefest connection to reality can see that he is wrong. The Nazis have not taken over the Seattle IMC newswire.
Please focus on that statement for a few seconds. The premise of his argument/campaign is that Nazis have taken over the newswire and that the editors are doing nothing.
The counter-argument to Benji's posts has not been that Nazis are good or that Nazis should post. It has been the fact that empirical evidence shows that Nazis have not taken over the newswire. Slow learners: please reread this paragraph one more time.
Last week, you might have excused Benji's posts by presuming that he was sincere but mistaken. Now a week into his daily rants about Nazi's taking over the newswire, it has gotten harder to justify or excuse his excesses.
So why is he posting this information? What might be his motivation? As noted a few days ago, Benji likes to stir up trouble. He had a big toss up was with ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism), NION (Not in Our Name), and UFPJ (United for Peace and Justice) that led to his being banned from their meetings. He has also had run ins with other anti-war coalitions, the Green Party, trade unionists, anarchists, the ISO, the SA, the FSP, the RCP, the CVO, and groups with acronyms I can't even remember. If you want all the nasty details, google him.
This man has a history of disrupting activist organizations. Now he has set his sights on the Seattle Indymedia. His repeated postings have become divisive and are interfering with the focus of this site.
It is time for the editors to ban him from this site.
Posted by: zorro at Mar 08, 2006 01:38
Remove the Nazi Zorro from Seattle Indymedia!